Talking To Joe McDavid
About discipling and outreach
Joe McDavid established Understanding Ministries - a church in South London - four years ago. He joined the Multiply Network soon afterwards.
Joe has been active in training and discipling and has a burden to see men and women grow in maturity in Jesus. A keen evangelist, he spends much of his time reaching out to others with his teams on the streets.
He is married to Audrey and they have two sons.
In this interview he talks to Huw Lewis, Director of Multiply and a senior leader in the Jesus Fellowship.
Huw: Where are you from originally?
Joe: I was born in Ghana.
How did you find Jesus?
Joe: I gave my life to Jesus in my secondary school during a meeting organised by a Christian group. I had a powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit at the same time, and spoke in tongues.
How did that change your life?
Joe: I became full of zeal and enthusiasm for Jesus! I found a deep joy bubbling within me and a fire was ignited to see my friends become Christians. Almost every day I witnessed to others and wrote letters about what I had experienced. A number of my friends found Jesus and I also led my sisters and my mother to the Lord. Most of my family - except my father - got born again!
That sounds impressive!
Joe: Yes. I also got involved in street evangelism and something called 'Dawn Broadcasting'. In Africa around 5am some Christians go on the street and preach out loud, while people are waking up.
So, how did your ministry develop after that?
Joe: I joined two ministries: one was called End-time Ministry, based in Tema, where I was born and the other was known as Calvary Road Ministries in Accra, the capital of Ghana. Our main aim was to reach students in secondary schools through music and drama. We also organised crusades in villages, and linked in with local churches.
What brought you over to this country then?
Joe: After my A-levels and one year's National Service, I learned German in Accra because I was planning to study engineering in Germany - my older brother was there. But I was still involved in evangelism and became increasingly interested in becoming a pastor. That was even though one of the things my father had told me was never become a pastor or a teacher because they're the poorest people in Ghana!
But I loved to do the work of God. Eventually, in 1990, I applied to a Bible College in Croatia, Yugoslavia, following advice from a friend and I managed to get a scholarship to do a degree in theology.
During my first summer holiday I visited England where my sister and my cousins lived. My cousin was part of a Baptist church in south London, so during the summer vacations I spent my time helping their youth work with camps and seminars. I came regularly and was more or less like their youth pastor!
How long were you at college?
Joe: It took three and a half years to gain my degree in theology.
What happened then?
Joe: I had many options including a masters degree in Australia and a mission scholarship to Canada. But I got a phone call one evening from the Baptist pastor where I used to help in London. They needed an assistant pastor and they wanted me to come over and do the job. That was in December 1993 so I came as a visitor to help. It was in this Baptist Church that I met and got married to my wife. I also studied at Spurgeon's College for a year.
How did your own ministry start?
Joe: In February 1997 I had a conviction to move into my own ministry. The church had a send off service for me, to bless me, pray over me and take an offering for me as well.
I began seeking God, praying, moving around and visiting churches. I also came to some Jesus Army events, including a Festival Weekend. After a while we started our own church - on our first wedding anniversary - June 8, 1997! It started with just my wife and I. The following week we prayed and these Nigerian people, who were introduced to us, came. I got in touch with a friend who plays the guitar and drums. He came with his wife. By God's grace we were able pay for the rent every week.
Where did the name Understanding Ministries come from?
Joe: I'd been preaching about the theme of understanding, and suddenly the Lord showed me that understanding is very important. For example, take the parable of the sower. The first person did not hear fruit because he didn't understand, the last person bore fruit because he understood. If you draw a linear graph, the root of understanding is in direct proportion to the rate of increase of fruitfulness. The more we understand, the more we bear fruit.
Understanding is a key to receiving, to multiplying, to bearing fruit. For me, understanding was like a skeleton, which needed flesh putting on it. Hence 'Understanding Ministries'.
So, how have things gone in those last four years?
Joe: The first three years were mainly a kind of 'indoor crusade' - feeding and nurturing the people in the church. After three years I felt a need to create a structure and lay a foundation of discipleship. Training people became a focus. I formed a sort of 'Bible College' which is really a one month, intensive training programme, including study about missions, revival and church planting.
How does the Bible college work?
Joe: Three times in a year, there is one month's active training. The structure is modelled on Jesus and the apostles. We teach on evangelism and then we go out on the streets, evangelising, counselling or ministering to people. It's practical and we spend time praying and asking God to give the answers to the challenges that we're facing. There are three of us who do the main training.
How many folk have you now got in your church?
Joe: Realistically I would say about 70 or so people.
What sort of structure have you developed?
Joe: Mainly a traditional one. We're a pastoral team with elders. We have Sunday services and a special Saturday morning event for the leadership team from 7.30 to 9.3Oam. We also have a school of 'The Word and The Spirit' on Wednesday evenings. There is a music ministry, a prayer/intercessory ministry and outreach/evangelism teams.
How do you go about outreach?
Joe: Mainly by friendship networks. We also evangelise in pairs - door to door, street to street and one to one. I personally spend about six to eight hours a day in outreach. First, we pray for breakthroughs with people on the streets. Then we go on the streets or in a market place. My office is on the street! We get into an area or community and spend hours making friends and winning souls and then guide them to churches. That's the kind of strategy, but obviously we need the labourers. Most of my people are foreigners and are working, so it's not easy to get people to help. I do sometimes join with other churches in outreach. The most important thing is that souls are won at any cost. It doesn't matter whether they come to my church, but my main burden is that the work of harvesting must be done. I'm training people in order to release more labourers for the harvest.
Most of your church is made up of black people?
Joe: Mainly black people and other folk from overseas.
I know one of our burdens has been to try and break down the barriers between the races and create a true Jesus multicultural church. How do you see that?
Joe: One of the reasons I live in the city is I am able to meet all types of people from many different backgrounds. They may be black or white but I'm hoping to make them into disciples.
Do you have a vision to bring together different types of races and people?
Joe: Yes. We are believing for people from many nations in our church. People to come from all over the world to be trained - from the Arab nations, from Asia. Last year God bought one person from Romania to us.
Have you found any problems with racism since you've been over here?
Joe: I have had more problems with culture than with race. Often, people are not ready to cross culture barriers - they are too comfortable or fearful. With churches that can be a problem. I personally have a vision to break down cultural barriers for the sake of Jesus, but I have found the church here generally unwilling for that.
How do you see your ministry?
Joe: I have a teaching ministry and have written books - one of them is published. I have taught in various Bible Colleges and preach regularly in churches. I do have an apostolic part in my ministry and see evangelism as a very important area as well. However, I still know the need to be trained. I sense that I am being prepared for another phase in my ministry and this was confirmed when I visited a church recently. God is urgently calling me into prayer and fasting for thirty days and thirty nights to wait upon Him for direction.
How do you train new members?
Joe: Every new person goes through a programme of life development. We call it Ml to M4. Ml is membership, M2 is maturity, M3 is ministry and M4 is mission. In Ml I personally take them through a teaching about Christ, making sure they are born again and well founded in basic Christian truths. I teach about our vision, our purpose, our belief statement, and our structure. And after we've gone through this and they would like to be part of the church, they sign a form. If they can't agree with the vision they can't join.
So after Ml they move to M2 - the maturity class. There we teach more about the habit of studying the word of God, prayer and fellowship. In M3 we teach about spiritual gifts, abilities and talents. M4 is about mission, evangelism and discipleship. Then they begin to put it into practice. When people come into membership everyone must join one specialist ministry. Either music, prayer intercession, outreach etc.
What attracted you to the Multiply movement?
Joe: The first thing is the passion for souls which I saw in your church. I've joined you in Trafalgar Square and Leicester Square and seen the love and care for people and how you reach out to the whole of humanity. Also your inclusiveness. People belong whether poor or rich or black or yellow. Everyone has accepted me as I am. That means a lot.
When you came to this country, how did you find the spirit of this nation and what's your vision for this country in terms of revival? Are we a spiritually dead nation?
Joe: I wouldn't say dead. But when I came the spirit was a little bit cold! I found English people less receptive than those in Ghana and Yugoslavia. But I know that the Lord has been dealing with this nation and I have a calling to fulfil here. There have been disappointments but I have a strong passion for the dying world. I'm very keen about the Holy Spirit movement, and I want to be part of that in this country. I see my main job as training people to go and do the business of winning souls at any cost - a church on the move.
How do you see revival coming to this country?
Joe: Honestly, I can only talk in general terms. All I can say is that God is moving now and waiting to do something. But God needs labourers. We really need to pray passionately for souls and things will happen. Before we talk to people about God we must first talk to God about all people.
One man of God I know sald that we don't minister standing up, we minister kneeling down. When you stand you can fall, when you kneel you can't fall. Kneeling means prayer and he spends so much time on his knees. I'm also expecting miraculous signs soon. I'm sure this will happen as we obey.
Are you beginning to see a few of these signs and wonders that will accompany the gospel?
Joe: Yes. We've seen God do a lot - saving people, delivering drugs addicts and alcoholics. The Lord is healing wounds as well as bodies. I've had phone calls from all over from people who want me to minister to them. One man on drugs came up to the team on the street and said, 'I need some help, I'm fed up with this life' so we prayed for him and since then he's been coming almost every Sunday to church. Once in our meeting God came upon us so strongly that we saw angels. It was so powerful that backslidden people got revived!
But the main calling and miracle for me is to make disciples. My heart cry is for more labourers who will be passionate for God. I believe something is about to happen and we need to make ourselves a vineyard of labourers.
'Talking To..'
Joe McDavid established Understanding Ministries - a church in South London - four years ago. He joined the Multiply Network soon afterwards.
