Talking To John Arnott
About the "Toronto Blessing"
John Arnott is an international speaker and teacher, well-known for his ministry of renewal. He pastors the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship.
With his wife, Carol, he spends much time imparting God's anointing to people in many cities and nations.
In this interview he talks to Noel Stanton, senior pastor of the Jesus Fellowship, during a recent visit to the UK.
Noel: Now that you're visiting the UK again, how do you feel about what's happening here? The media are calling it a Jesus explosion!
John: It's great! I wish Canada would take it as eagerly. We're so spread out that we don't get the same amount of interaction. In the UK you have large numbers of people reasonably close together and you network very well.
Noel: Do you sense a move of God developing here?
John: Yes. You've got about 7,000 churches flowing in renewal right now, and all the top leaders in the charismatic movement are totally in favour of it. It's a very unusual situation - I don't know if England has ever had the like of it before. Something that moves so fast. You'd need to compare it with the Welsh revival in the early 1900s. It's spanning all denominations and it's just got immense potential!
Noel: How do you feel God is leading your team now?
John: There's a bit of a shift. We're re-focusing again on our church and getting that happening. The Lord's led us into some media ministry: radio and television. Part of the reason there was that we want to really see our own church grow. We have planted four churches and tripled in size but we haven't been able to take it beyond that. There's a need to nurture what's going on at home again, so we're aware of that. Our weekend meetings are taking on much more of an evangelistic flavour as we invite the local people to bring their friends.
Noel: And are you starting a world-wide organisation?
John: Not as such. I'm encouraging people around the world who love the renewal to talk to one another, and the best way to do that is on the Internet. We've had a web page for six months or so about what was happening in the Toronto Church, but now we want to go beyond that and set up an International Renewal Network.
The Internet can make it easily accessible. We want theologians to compare notes, as well as the medical doctors and the pastors or evangelists and see what they have to say - just a forum.
Then, because we're out of the Vineyard movement now, I've asked some international leaders to be advisors for us, which they have agreed to do.
Noel: You're determined to remain accountable.
John: O yes, definitely.
Noel: The Vineyard break caused you some sorrow but you see it as God leading you into new things?
John: We're trying to look on the bright side of things! People feel they can speak to us more easily now we're not a part of a movement that's aggressively planting churches. We're just us.
Noel: Do you feel the "Refreshing" (or "Toronto Blessing") is entering a new phase?
John: I can see that it is in some circles. We feel we've been stuck at the shallow end of the pool in a sense, because the people that come to us for ministry are at a beginning point. They come with questions or they're sceptical or hungry or desperate and we haven't been able to pursue taking this whole thing deeper and wider for ourselves. That's why we want to move more into evangelism and church planting.
Noel: People who receive the blessing often gain a new and close relationship with the Lord.
John: That's right.
Noel: And it seems to be a renewal of their new birth and their adoption in the Spirit so that they cry 'Father' and love Jesus.
John: I would definitely agree with that. Margaret Poloma's a sociologist who's studied what happens to people at our church when they are out in the Spirit doing "carpet time". She found a lot of wonderful things, like 20 per cent of them had a physical healing, and lots of them felt set free from the enemy's power, but the main thing that people said over and over again was that they were more in love with Jesus than ever they were before. And if that was the only fruit, I'd be thrilled.
Noel: What do you say to people who ask, "Where is the power of the baptism of the Spirit?"
John: I think the power is coming in by leaps and bounds. As people soak in God's presence over a period of six or more months there's a boldness that comes upon them and their witnessing at work, with friends, with family. We're definitely seeing people more empowered to live the Christian life and share the gospel.
Noel: And you haven't abandoned speaking in tongues?
John: Not at all.
Noel: How do you respond, John, to your critics?
John: I'm a little puzzled because if a person gets three-quarters healed physically, they rule that out - "That's not a miracle or they would have been totally healed!" I don't know if I've ever seen a person made perfect before my eyes!
Some have become very legalistic. You need to be very careful when you criticise because you frighten people away from seeking more of the Lord.
Noel: Critics say some people can be "blessed" and later become depressed.
John: Just because people are blessed by the Lord doesn't mean that they're not going to need more ministry. That's one of the reasons why we don't do major deliverance ministry in our renewal meetings. I don't really believe in opening up a person to send them back to their pastor worse off than they came because the work was never finished.
We've told everybody since day one: this has to be pastored. You don't just think: "Now the Holy Spirit has come, everything is going to work out just fine."
Noel: And what of those who say it's experience-centred rathere than Bible-centred?
John: I would quote Matthew 22 where Jesus said "You err because you don't know the scriptures or the power of God." He said that to the Saducees who knew a lot about scripture, but He used the Greek word "ginosko" - "You don't intimately know the scriptures and you don't really know experientially the power of God, that's why you err." Their error was the greatest error of all. They failed to recognise a legitimate move of God.
Noel: And when people talk about churches being divided?
John: The charismatic movement was accused of dividing churches too, wasn't it? People try to share what has been a very personal and wonderful blessing and other people say, "Are you saying that my experience is second-rate?" I don't think most of them are saying that at all. They're saying, "Look, I've found something wonderful and I'm just trying to share it with you." And yet people polarise and react and then churches split over it. But it's ever been so, hasn't it?
Noel: Do you see this breaking out into evangelism and mission?
John: Absolutely. People are being converted through just going out under the power of the Spirit. You pray for an unbeliever and the Spirit comes on him, and he gets up and says, "I want to give my life to Christ."
I had a situation like that just two days ago here in the UK where the media were in the meeting. We said to the photographer, "We don't want you taking close-up pictures of people that are being blessed by the Lord" and so he said, "Well, pray for the reporter and I'll take a picture of him!" When we prayed for him, he just went out in the Spirit and we soaked him in prayer. He said, "It feels very pleasant and this is great, but, you know, I just can't move my legs" and it kind of shocked the photographer!
Noel: The "Blessing" is producing more leaders?
John: Yes it is, Noel. There's people being really stirred up and challenged. It's really going deep, deep within the hearts and souls of a lot of Christians.
Noel: Anything on your heart for God's people in the UK?
John: I would encourage them to not get impatient. We're so anxious to move on and yet the Lord seems to be in no hurry. And so on the one hand, there are Marthas around saying, there's work to be done and on the other hand there are people like Mary who are content to sit at the feet of Jesus a while longer and enjoy the blessing. We need to encourage people to move on but yet be content as well to let people spend necessary time in the presence of God.
This article was taken from our Jesus Life magazine, and was first published in April 1996.
'Talking To..'
John Arnott is an international speaker and teacher, well-known for his ministry of renewal. He pastors the 
